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Chapter 1.3 Testing

Test Server Information & what needs currently testing
Skyyr
Ensign
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:45 pm
Ukraine

Re: Chapter 1.3 Testing

#81

Post by Skyyr » Sun May 24, 2020 4:36 pm

ThirdBase wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 1:42 am
Skyyr wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 6:49 pm
Any feedback on bounties being AFK on the outside portion of guildhalls? Again, this is relatively game-breaking in terms of the bounty system if the timer and private structure changes go live without this being addressed.
I agree it shouldn't be considered outside, but how is it game breaking? It's been that way since the game began lol.
Because currently, you just drop the mission and come back when they're out of the guild hall. With 1.3 changes, the mission expires after 3 hours (or when you drop it) and you can't pick up the same mission for 24 hours.

Players in a guild hall were supposed to not be listed on terminals, in order to prevent a BH from taking a mission on player who was afk and unattackable, therefore wasting/tying-up their single chance in a 24 hour window to hunt said player.

Unless this is fixed, all players must do is leave their Jedi logged in when not playing (on top of said guild hall or on the veranda of Naboo-style houses) and it breaks the bounty system, as they'll show as active, but be unattackable. Anyone that takes their mission will have to drop it and then wait another 24 hours, only to not know if they'll be AFK again or not.

The changes proposed were supposed to only list bounties on the terminals that are not outside and attackable. The situation I outlined breaks that system and renders the time limits as potentially abusable.

ThirdBase
Flight Officer
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:49 pm
United States of America

Re: Chapter 1.3 Testing

#82

Post by ThirdBase » Sun May 24, 2020 5:12 pm

Skyyr wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 4:36 pm
ThirdBase wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 1:42 am
Skyyr wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 6:49 pm
Any feedback on bounties being AFK on the outside portion of guildhalls? Again, this is relatively game-breaking in terms of the bounty system if the timer and private structure changes go live without this being addressed.
I agree it shouldn't be considered outside, but how is it game breaking? It's been that way since the game began lol.
Because currently, you just drop the mission and come back when they're out of the guild hall. With 1.3 changes, the mission expires after 3 hours (or when you drop it) and you can't pick up the same mission for 24 hours.

Players in a guild hall were supposed to not be listed on terminals, in order to prevent a BH from taking a mission on player who was afk and unattackable, therefore wasting/tying-up their single chance in a 24 hour window to hunt said player.

Unless this is fixed, all players must do is leave their Jedi logged in when not playing (on top of said guild hall or on the veranda of Naboo-style houses) and it breaks the bounty system, as they'll show as active, but be unattackable. Anyone that takes their mission will have to drop it and then wait another 24 hours, only to not know if they'll be AFK again or not.

The changes proposed were supposed to only list bounties on the terminals that are not outside and attackable. The situation I outlined breaks that system and renders the time limits as potentially abusable.
Apart from the 24 hour cool down it's like that now though. You never know if the bounty you pick up is going to be afk in a building you can't get to. Anyone can leave their Jedi logged in all day every day and never leave. A Jedi's sole purpose isn't to provide sport to a bounty hunter. It's a nice feature for BH that Jedi won't show up on the terminals if they're AFK in a building, but what's to stop someone from picking up a bounty and then the Jedi goes AFK in a building? I don't see how it's game breaking is all.

Skyyr
Ensign
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:45 pm
Ukraine

Re: Chapter 1.3 Testing

#83

Post by Skyyr » Mon May 25, 2020 2:30 am

ThirdBase wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 5:12 pm
Skyyr wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 4:36 pm
ThirdBase wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 1:42 am


I agree it shouldn't be considered outside, but how is it game breaking? It's been that way since the game began lol.
Because currently, you just drop the mission and come back when they're out of the guild hall. With 1.3 changes, the mission expires after 3 hours (or when you drop it) and you can't pick up the same mission for 24 hours.

Players in a guild hall were supposed to not be listed on terminals, in order to prevent a BH from taking a mission on player who was afk and unattackable, therefore wasting/tying-up their single chance in a 24 hour window to hunt said player.

Unless this is fixed, all players must do is leave their Jedi logged in when not playing (on top of said guild hall or on the veranda of Naboo-style houses) and it breaks the bounty system, as they'll show as active, but be unattackable. Anyone that takes their mission will have to drop it and then wait another 24 hours, only to not know if they'll be AFK again or not.

The changes proposed were supposed to only list bounties on the terminals that are not outside and attackable. The situation I outlined breaks that system and renders the time limits as potentially abusable.
Apart from the 24 hour cool down it's like that now though. You never know if the bounty you pick up is going to be afk in a building you can't get to. Anyone can leave their Jedi logged in all day every day and never leave. A Jedi's sole purpose isn't to provide sport to a bounty hunter. It's a nice feature for BH that Jedi won't show up on the terminals if they're AFK in a building, but what's to stop someone from picking up a bounty and then the Jedi goes AFK in a building? I don't see how it's game breaking is all.
It's not "like that" at all. I can sit on my BH and send seekers every 10 minutes to see if they've moved, as it currently is. I can go back to other toons or activities until they do. The mission doesn't auto-expire. There is no problem with live. I can wait until the mark is active. It doesn't matter if they're afk because my mission won't expire.

With the new changes, the entire point of the 3-hour expiration is so that an active bounty expires after that time. To prevent abuse, it's been set so that only Jedi who are out in the open (and therefore attackable) show up on terminals. This oversight breaks the system - Jedi who are afk and not attackable will still show on the terminals if they're on a guild hall roof. That defeats the entire purpose of preventing marks that are indoors from showing on the terminals.

ThirdBase
Flight Officer
Posts: 11
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:49 pm
United States of America

Re: Chapter 1.3 Testing

#84

Post by ThirdBase » Mon May 25, 2020 4:48 am

Skyyr wrote:
Mon May 25, 2020 2:30 am
ThirdBase wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 5:12 pm
Skyyr wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 4:36 pm


Because currently, you just drop the mission and come back when they're out of the guild hall. With 1.3 changes, the mission expires after 3 hours (or when you drop it) and you can't pick up the same mission for 24 hours.

Players in a guild hall were supposed to not be listed on terminals, in order to prevent a BH from taking a mission on player who was afk and unattackable, therefore wasting/tying-up their single chance in a 24 hour window to hunt said player.

Unless this is fixed, all players must do is leave their Jedi logged in when not playing (on top of said guild hall or on the veranda of Naboo-style houses) and it breaks the bounty system, as they'll show as active, but be unattackable. Anyone that takes their mission will have to drop it and then wait another 24 hours, only to not know if they'll be AFK again or not.

The changes proposed were supposed to only list bounties on the terminals that are not outside and attackable. The situation I outlined breaks that system and renders the time limits as potentially abusable.
Apart from the 24 hour cool down it's like that now though. You never know if the bounty you pick up is going to be afk in a building you can't get to. Anyone can leave their Jedi logged in all day every day and never leave. A Jedi's sole purpose isn't to provide sport to a bounty hunter. It's a nice feature for BH that Jedi won't show up on the terminals if they're AFK in a building, but what's to stop someone from picking up a bounty and then the Jedi goes AFK in a building? I don't see how it's game breaking is all.
It's not "like that" at all. I can sit on my BH and send seekers every 10 minutes to see if they've moved, as it currently is. I can go back to other toons or activities until they do. The mission doesn't auto-expire. There is no problem with live. I can wait until the mark is active. It doesn't matter if they're afk because my mission won't expire.

With the new changes, the entire point of the 3-hour expiration is so that an active bounty expires after that time. To prevent abuse, it's been set so that only Jedi who are out in the open (and therefore attackable) show up on terminals. This oversight breaks the system - Jedi who are afk and not attackable will still show on the terminals if they're on a guild hall roof. That defeats the entire purpose of preventing marks that are indoors from showing on the terminals.
Again, what's the difference to you getting a Jedi mission and then he goes inside AFK? So you get a mission and turns out they're AFK on a roof or in a building. You drop it and find another. Same as now if you don't want to wait.

I assume with live now you wait because you know who the mark is and want to wait on them. Unless I'm mistaken you don't know who the mark is until you get there so there is no incentive to hunt just one Jedi. So you get someone who's AFK; you can wait the 3 hours hoping they move or drop it and get another. You won't be able to hunt them for 24 hours. You can find another mark. It just doesn't sound like a big deal and it's definitely not game breaking.

Decius
Midshipman
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Apr 01, 2020 4:43 am
United States of America

Re: Chapter 1.3 Testing

#85

Post by Decius » Wed May 27, 2020 5:44 pm

There’s ZERO incentive for a Jedi to fight a BH in the current system. It’s actually negative to even fight one due to pearl condition loss/time wasted. Maybe if they added in incentives to actually fight BHs then more Jedi would. Most will either just let the BH kill them or sit in a building and play a different character. It’s just not worth it, Jedi do zero damage and can be 1-2 shotted by LLCs and Flamers. Its some of the worst and most boring combat in the game fighting a BH as a Jedi and with ZERO reward if you happen to win. So yeah, until it’s worth it most Jedi are gonna just afk in buildings and wait out timers. You can’t blame them, as most are just trying to PvE or do stuff with guildies/friends. BHs are the ones who willingly interfere/impose on what their target is doing at the time.

Jeremiah87
Sub-Commander
Posts: 44
Joined: Sat Jul 13, 2019 4:24 pm
United States of America

Re: Chapter 1.3 Testing

#86

Post by Jeremiah87 » Wed May 27, 2020 8:12 pm

Shouldn't speak in absolutes, some of us play our jedi all the time, and have no issue fighting BH's. Part of the class, you win sometimes you lose sometimes, some Jedi don't fight BH at all, so they never improve and learn better ways to fight them, and as a result consider their profession underpowered due to a lack of experience and more likely than not a pvp or PVBH template.

Dutstra
Flight Officer
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:33 pm
Great Britain

Re: Chapter 1.3 Testing

#87

Post by Dutstra » Thu May 28, 2020 12:09 am

This patch has had a majorly negative effect on the server in my eye's. I see fewer people logging in, broken content, broken spec and feeling under powered on characters will have impacts on the way this server goes.

I fully appreciate the devs do this in their spare time, but delaying this patch will ultimately be this servers ruin. I used to see constant spam of Jedi and BH conflicts here. Now there is hardly any going on because the Jedi feel weak. I for one don't play my Jedi toon anymore. Mainly because there is no incentive for me to burn credits/pearls on fending off BH. Yes for a majority of the time I get wiped out by multiples but 1v1 Jedi is strong. Thing is my Swordsman is stronger and can play uninterrupted for hours on end, guess where I am playing.

Broken content is also a factor I have seen people leave over. There may indeed be a small number that have left due to this. But also the fact the Warren is broken an stopping people solo grinding glowie will drive players out of the game too. Seeing broken content is not a recipe for selling the game to potential players.

And again, I fully appreciate this is a volunteer based project done within their free time. The above does matter and needs to be addressed as soon as possible. The length this patch is taking you'd expect it would be an major update not a fix/tweak patch, It's feeling more like a revamp.

I have 5 RL mates who play this server, due to broken content and toxicity from other players they have stopped playing. I on the other hand have cut back and focused more on a relaxed crafting gameplay an swordsman to supplement the crafting.

Skyyr
Ensign
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:45 pm
Ukraine

Re: Chapter 1.3 Testing

#88

Post by Skyyr » Thu May 28, 2020 5:55 pm

Dutstra wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 12:09 am
I used to see constant spam of Jedi and BH conflicts here. Now there is hardly any going on because the Jedi feel weak.
What changed that made Jedi "weak"? Please note that most of the "overpowered BH" templates are melee templates/templates that weren't affected by any recent changes.

Not trolling, genuinely curious as to what you think changed that made Jedi feel weak, when previously they fought anyone and everyone.

Dutstra
Flight Officer
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:33 pm
Great Britain

Re: Chapter 1.3 Testing

#89

Post by Dutstra » Thu May 28, 2020 6:28 pm

Skyyr wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 5:55 pm
Dutstra wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 12:09 am
I used to see constant spam of Jedi and BH conflicts here. Now there is hardly any going on because the Jedi feel weak.
What changed that made Jedi "weak"? Please note that most of the "overpowered BH" templates are melee templates/templates that weren't affected by any recent changes.

Not trolling, genuinely curious as to what you think changed that made Jedi feel weak, when previously they fought anyone and everyone.
I for one feel weak as a class balanced 1v1 but has the potential to have to face BH 1-3 v 1. I have fought you twice before I think and killed you both times that I recall. I have stood toe to toe vs solo BH a handful of times but as soon as that second guy turns up it changes the equation and often results in a swift death.

By feeling weak what I mean is I can run a Swords template which can out perform a Jedi's ability by a large proportion. my swords can AFK Elders/Krayts/DJK and many more mobs, PVP wise it can stand toe to toe to a Jedi player and just outlast their force with plenty more in the tank. It costs a lot lot less to run a Swordsman than a Jedi and you get more back in that investment if you played them like for like.

If you're balancing 1v1 limit combat in this situation to 1v1. Else balance accordingly.

I cannot say whats made Jedi feel weak in-particular as I have not payed attention to all the previous changes.

Swordsman takes a day to grind, jedi 6 weeks + glowie + xpgrind, then the Jedi template.

Skyyr
Ensign
Posts: 27
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:45 pm
Ukraine

Re: Chapter 1.3 Testing

#90

Post by Skyyr » Thu May 28, 2020 8:35 pm

Dutstra wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 6:28 pm
I for one feel weak as a class balanced 1v1 but has the potential to have to face BH 1-3 v 1. I have fought you twice before I think and killed you both times that I recall. I have stood toe to toe vs solo BH a handful of times but as soon as that second guy turns up it changes the equation and often results in a swift death.

By feeling weak what I mean is I can run a Swords template which can out perform a Jedi's ability by a large proportion. my swords can AFK Elders/Krayts/DJK and many more mobs, PVP wise it can stand toe to toe to a Jedi player and just outlast their force with plenty more in the tank. It costs a lot lot less to run a Swordsman than a Jedi and you get more back in that investment if you played them like for like.

If you're balancing 1v1 limit combat in this situation to 1v1. Else balance accordingly.

I cannot say whats made Jedi feel weak in-particular as I have not payed attention to all the previous changes.

Swordsman takes a day to grind, jedi 6 weeks + glowie + xpgrind, then the Jedi template.
I hear what you're saying. Respectfully, however, you didn't really answer the question.

In all of your examples, you're stating that other professions are better than Jedi in various areas; however, that has nothing to do with Jedi becoming weak (in your original comment about Jedi vs BH being a much more common occurrence). By your own examples, these professions were always that way. In fact, Tyclo made a comment that Jedi has only ever had a single nerf, and that was a change to AI. By all evidence, there's nothing that occurred to make Jedi weaker.

It seems that you want Jedi to be better in every area (and that's a fine opinion to have). However, from a balancing perspective, even alpha classes cannot be the best at everything, otherwise they render every other class obsolete. Put another way, why play any class other than Jedi, if Jedi are better in every area? That's the balancing issue at play here.

I'd gladly support pre-9 Jedi templates... if they brought back permadeth and Jedi TEFs. Power and capability have to be balanced vs penalty and consequence. I don't think many people want that approach though, and that's the inherent issue (in my humble opinion).

Jedi run faster, heal better, tank ranged better, have better instantaneous damage reduction (burst defense), and are better at group PvP than all other professions. By comparison, they don't make the best PvE tanks, they don't do the best burst damage, they aren't the best at 1v1 PvP. That's a trade-off. It doesn't mean it's the right trade-off, but it's a balance of sorts.

I guess what I'm saying is, you implied Jedi somehow became weak, yet your examples highlight that they didn't; it's simply you want them to become stronger (those are actually two different arguments). What balance do you think should happen in order to prevent them from becoming the end-all dominant alpha-class?

And yes, I fought you twice when I was testing out ranged template variants. It's not the templates I've run for the last month or so. I've actually taken your mission a few times since wanting to fight you; however, you've been AFK each time. I'd be happy to fight you if you're up for it.

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