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Chapter 1.3 Testing

Test Server Information & what needs currently testing
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stsh10
Junior Flight Officer
Posts: 5
Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:48 am
United States of America

Re: Chapter 1.3 Testing

#71

Post by stsh10 » Thu May 14, 2020 2:48 pm

Blazer2093 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 11:01 am
1. complaint about jedi can get an advantage in a system that bh´s and both gcw factions exploit since month´s -- but should get fixed^^ sitting ontop of a house isnt rly outside, indeed
2. complaint about jedi can get an advantage in a system that bh´s and both gcw factions exploit since month´s
3. complaint about jedi can get an advantage in a system that bh´s and both gcw factions exploit since month´s
4. this is alrdy live for quite some time and the balance is still on the wrong side of things due to multiple bh´s hunting you always never just 1


additionaly stop trying to argue with "suposed to be" / "was on live different " and all that nonsense this isnt live and if you wanna talk supposed to be .. theres no reason a bh should hold up in a 1v1 in a Star wars Supposed to be szenario .. but this a private custom server so deal with it and stop crying about the bounty hunting system gettn a deserved nerf just becouse its your main ... developers have a good reason for the changes as they are comming

bottom line stop crying about having your main nerfed man .... there are enough targets to hunt
Tyclo wrote: ↑
Sun Apr 12, 2020 8:23 pm
IMPORTANT
Everything on the Test Center is for TESTING. No changes are ever final. The Test Center and these notes are specifically for testing purposes. Emotional reactions, slander, rude/back handed comments and threats will not be tolerated. Please keep comments on changes to-the-point and feedback concise. Please do not provide feedback that skews the results to a personal preference, such as under reporting or providing partial data-sets. This only creates extra work for the developers, staff and other testers.

fergjeezy357
Junior Flight Officer
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:13 pm
Afghanistan

Re: Chapter 1.3 Testing

#72

Post by fergjeezy357 » Thu May 14, 2020 3:50 pm

Skyyr wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 3:51 pm

4. Usable Points After Dropping FS Skills

This is not in the patch notes, but given both the 1) damage increase to Jedi and 2) the reduction of BH's taking missions, I feel this needs to at least be brought up. Currently, Jedi can drop their FS skills via a quest. This is a great improvement to Jedi from live, as the FS skills (in most cases) did little to nothing to improve a Jedi's combat ability. However, many Jedi are using these gained points to pick up non-Jedi skills, such as marksman (for the use of dot weapons, e.g. spraysticks) or, more commonly, novice brawler to spam intimidate and warcry with.

While I have no issues with dabbling, I feel the problem here is that the additional points regained from FS skills break the original intention and balance of Jedi. To be clear: I'm only talking about the dropping of FS skills, not Jedi picking up brawler. If a Jedi with FS skills wants to pick up brawler, then by all means, go for it. They're limited to the same 226 points they were before. However, if a Jedi drops FS skills and regains that 24 Skill Points, then I feel those should be forced into Jedi-only skill points - both from a gameplay balance issue, as well as storyline (the entire point is that you're using knowledge of the force to learn further and free up skills that a natural person/player could not).

Currently, it's being used as a get-out-of-jail card, as all a Jedi has to do is spam brawler intimidate and FR1 away. The intimidate in most cases is enough to cut damage so that only the luckiest of back-to-back max-damage hits would incap them (and even that is rare). Intimidate itself is not the problem, it's the use of a force-cost free intimidate.
This I do not agree with. Jedi should have the freedom to place their skill points anywhere they see fit just like any other profession in the game. They shouldn't be singled out just because it may give them an ill perceived advantage against bounty hunters.

Skyyr
Flight Officer
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:45 pm
Ukraine

Re: Chapter 1.3 Testing

#73

Post by Skyyr » Thu May 14, 2020 4:23 pm

fergjeezy357 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 3:50 pm
Skyyr wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 3:51 pm

4. Usable Points After Dropping FS Skills

This is not in the patch notes, but given both the 1) damage increase to Jedi and 2) the reduction of BH's taking missions, I feel this needs to at least be brought up. Currently, Jedi can drop their FS skills via a quest. This is a great improvement to Jedi from live, as the FS skills (in most cases) did little to nothing to improve a Jedi's combat ability. However, many Jedi are using these gained points to pick up non-Jedi skills, such as marksman (for the use of dot weapons, e.g. spraysticks) or, more commonly, novice brawler to spam intimidate and warcry with.

While I have no issues with dabbling, I feel the problem here is that the additional points regained from FS skills break the original intention and balance of Jedi. To be clear: I'm only talking about the dropping of FS skills, not Jedi picking up brawler. If a Jedi with FS skills wants to pick up brawler, then by all means, go for it. They're limited to the same 226 points they were before. However, if a Jedi drops FS skills and regains that 24 Skill Points, then I feel those should be forced into Jedi-only skill points - both from a gameplay balance issue, as well as storyline (the entire point is that you're using knowledge of the force to learn further and free up skills that a natural person/player could not).

Currently, it's being used as a get-out-of-jail card, as all a Jedi has to do is spam brawler intimidate and FR1 away. The intimidate in most cases is enough to cut damage so that only the luckiest of back-to-back max-damage hits would incap them (and even that is rare). Intimidate itself is not the problem, it's the use of a force-cost free intimidate.
This I do not agree with. Jedi should have the freedom to place their skill points anywhere they see fit just like any other profession in the game. They shouldn't be singled out just because it may give them an ill perceived advantage against bounty hunters.
For clarification, this suggestion had nothing to do specifically with bounty hunters; it had to do with the a change to the profession and the unbalance it allows, combined with the changes to BH. For transparency, I think it should change regardless of whether or not BH exists.

Force Sensitive points have always (overall, in the context of SWG post-pub 9) been a pre-requisite for Jedi. Dropping them gives Jedi an extra 24 skill points. Given that the 24 FS points didn't do much to enhance existing Jedi abilities, I feel this is a good thing.

The issue is when those 24 skill points are then used to enhance non-Jedi abilities that work against the Jedi vs non-Jedi combat system. Jedi's abilities have always been balanced against the use of a force bar. Basically, Jedi are no longer bound by the HAM limitations of other classes; they are only limited by their force bar. They can do (mostly) anything, provided that they build it into their template: enhanced running, healing, dot removal, wound removal, state removal, damage reduction - really, most anything. The trade is that is balanced against their Force pool.

Brawler breaks this system by allowing Jedi to cut damage by 50%, while costing no force. While the issue is largely with novice brawler (and I feel that major changes to Intimidate are needed, such as moving it out of the Novice box and maybe into the fourth-tier boxes of brawler or into the novice advanced class boxes), the fact a Jedi can pick up a skill that they otherwise could not afford and then use that force-free to major effect is game-breaking, IMO. Especially when combined with passive skills such as saber block and ultra-low force cost escape specials, such as FR1.

Once again, this isn't entirely about BH; this is about Jedi vs all non-Jedi combat professions, especially ranged professions. As it currently is, the Jedi can spam brawler intimidate constantly and this makes virtually all ranged classes completely useless, save for exceptional weapons. I will gladly log on test center and stream video of 3 ranged players (any 3, you pick) shooting a Jedi spamming brawler intimidate. It's laughably unbalanced - the Jedi can tank them all day long.

With force intimidate, (I believe) there is both an accuracy component as well as a force usage component; it's not an infinitely-spammable skill. Brawler intimidate IS infinitely spammable. While there are issues I have with this for non-Jedi, at least non-Jedi can't heal mind and they have a battle fatigue component that eventually wears out their effectiveness. Jedi can side-step both of these.

That's my concern. While some of the examples do center around BH, as that is the primary non-Jedi profession that Jedi fight, it's not based on BH. This concern is based around making non-Jedi useless in general PvP, especially ranged classes.

fergjeezy357
Junior Flight Officer
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:13 pm
Afghanistan

Re: Chapter 1.3 Testing

#74

Post by fergjeezy357 » Thu May 14, 2020 5:53 pm

My thing is, and you point it out already. To me the issue is about Intimidate. And I do agree. It is way too easy to get for ALL professions and in high end PvE, is basically mandatory. Whether or not Jedi can get back their 24 FS points, they will still have access to Intimidate in Nov Brawler. The temp I use has it. And I still have all my FS skills (MLS, Defender 4xx4, Heal 4xx4, Enh xxx3). The only thing I am missing is FR or FA. But I don't really care about those because I don't fight BH's anyways. When They come, I let them kill me and go spend ten minutes grinding out the xp I lost. So regardless. Even with the FS skills, I still have all the goodies that you say we can do. Allowing me to drop FS skills just allows me to get one more branch in a tree that I already have.

And lets talk about the force bar. The thing that is the most restrictive thing when it comes to skill usage. Normal professions don't have that hindrance because with buffs, they can regen any costs that there abilities use to the point that a person wouldn't even know they costs anything unless they are unbuffed. You say that Jedi can do anything. But they already have a great equalizer to counter all of their "OPness". The force bar eventually runs out. Normal professions can spam forever. Yes they do have to contend with the mind bar. But to me. That is one of the biggest goofs SOE made when it came to the professions. If I had my way, there would be a way for normal professions to heal Mind. I think it's stupid that they can't. So I don't see that as balance problem. I see it as a design problem that should be fixed.

The devs of this server decided that Jedi should be able to get those points back. The quest to do it isn't soloable and will either cost you time or money depending on whether you buy the ancient holo shards or go kill the NPC's. I think it is a fair trade considering. Again. I don't think it is fair to single them out for a penalty like that. Especially when the pain point is about them having Intimidate. Which EVERYONE uses regardless of whether you are a Jedi or not. Intimidate is the issue that needs to be addressed. Not the fact that Jedi can drop FS skills and get normal skills.

Like I said. I see where you are coming from. But I don't agree with it. Fix the way Intimidate works. Heck. i would be happy if it was moved to the Master box in Brawler so everyone would have to invest to get it. Or if it has to stay in the Novice box, make it so that it only reduces damage by 20%. Or another suggestion that if Jedi just can't have normal Intimidate. Then move it to Novice Powers or Novice Defender. Let it keep the damage reduction it has since Jedi have to use force to use it. Sounds like a fair trade off to me. But I would just rather the one skill be fixed instead of changing everything around.

fergjeezy357
Junior Flight Officer
Posts: 6
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:13 pm
Afghanistan

Re: Chapter 1.3 Testing

#75

Post by fergjeezy357 » Thu May 14, 2020 10:07 pm

Skyyr wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 4:23 pm
fergjeezy357 wrote:
Thu May 14, 2020 3:50 pm
Skyyr wrote:
Wed May 13, 2020 3:51 pm

4. Usable Points After Dropping FS Skills

This is not in the patch notes, but given both the 1) damage increase to Jedi and 2) the reduction of BH's taking missions, I feel this needs to at least be brought up. Currently, Jedi can drop their FS skills via a quest. This is a great improvement to Jedi from live, as the FS skills (in most cases) did little to nothing to improve a Jedi's combat ability. However, many Jedi are using these gained points to pick up non-Jedi skills, such as marksman (for the use of dot weapons, e.g. spraysticks) or, more commonly, novice brawler to spam intimidate and warcry with.

While I have no issues with dabbling, I feel the problem here is that the additional points regained from FS skills break the original intention and balance of Jedi. To be clear: I'm only talking about the dropping of FS skills, not Jedi picking up brawler. If a Jedi with FS skills wants to pick up brawler, then by all means, go for it. They're limited to the same 226 points they were before. However, if a Jedi drops FS skills and regains that 24 Skill Points, then I feel those should be forced into Jedi-only skill points - both from a gameplay balance issue, as well as storyline (the entire point is that you're using knowledge of the force to learn further and free up skills that a natural person/player could not).

Currently, it's being used as a get-out-of-jail card, as all a Jedi has to do is spam brawler intimidate and FR1 away. The intimidate in most cases is enough to cut damage so that only the luckiest of back-to-back max-damage hits would incap them (and even that is rare). Intimidate itself is not the problem, it's the use of a force-cost free intimidate.
This I do not agree with. Jedi should have the freedom to place their skill points anywhere they see fit just like any other profession in the game. They shouldn't be singled out just because it may give them an ill perceived advantage against bounty hunters.
For clarification, this suggestion had nothing to do specifically with bounty hunters; it had to do with the a change to the profession and the unbalance it allows, combined with the changes to BH. For transparency, I think it should change regardless of whether or not BH exists.

Force Sensitive points have always (overall, in the context of SWG post-pub 9) been a pre-requisite for Jedi. Dropping them gives Jedi an extra 24 skill points. Given that the 24 FS points didn't do much to enhance existing Jedi abilities, I feel this is a good thing.

The issue is when those 24 skill points are then used to enhance non-Jedi abilities that work against the Jedi vs non-Jedi combat system. Jedi's abilities have always been balanced against the use of a force bar. Basically, Jedi are no longer bound by the HAM limitations of other classes; they are only limited by their force bar. They can do (mostly) anything, provided that they build it into their template: enhanced running, healing, dot removal, wound removal, state removal, damage reduction - really, most anything. The trade is that is balanced against their Force pool.

Brawler breaks this system by allowing Jedi to cut damage by 50%, while costing no force. While the issue is largely with novice brawler (and I feel that major changes to Intimidate are needed, such as moving it out of the Novice box and maybe into the fourth-tier boxes of brawler or into the novice advanced class boxes), the fact a Jedi can pick up a skill that they otherwise could not afford and then use that force-free to major effect is game-breaking, IMO. Especially when combined with passive skills such as saber block and ultra-low force cost escape specials, such as FR1.

Once again, this isn't entirely about BH; this is about Jedi vs all non-Jedi combat professions, especially ranged professions. As it currently is, the Jedi can spam brawler intimidate constantly and this makes virtually all ranged classes completely useless, save for exceptional weapons. I will gladly log on test center and stream video of 3 ranged players (any 3, you pick) shooting a Jedi spamming brawler intimidate. It's laughably unbalanced - the Jedi can tank them all day long.

With force intimidate, (I believe) there is both an accuracy component as well as a force usage component; it's not an infinitely-spammable skill. Brawler intimidate IS infinitely spammable. While there are issues I have with this for non-Jedi, at least non-Jedi can't heal mind and they have a battle fatigue component that eventually wears out their effectiveness. Jedi can side-step both of these.

That's my concern. While some of the examples do center around BH, as that is the primary non-Jedi profession that Jedi fight, it's not based on BH. This concern is based around making non-Jedi useless in general PvP, especially ranged classes.
I am glad though that we are talking and being civil with bringing up our view points. Too many times, discussions like these devolve into mud slinging, which gets nobody anywhere. Jedi has always been the outlier in SWG and a point of contention in so many ways. I don't think anybody really has the answer on how to bring balance to the Force in SWG lol. But anyways. Thank you for being civil in our back and forth.

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Cozdragon
CC Admin
Posts: 471
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:31 pm
Egypt

Re: Chapter 1.3 Testing

#76

Post by Cozdragon » Wed May 20, 2020 3:33 pm

I'm sure this is on the list to fix but in case:

Unable to destroy a vendor in a house at the vendor. It gives you the option to destroy but it doesn't actually remove the vendor.

The only way to destroy it is via the house terminal and destroying all the contents.

erau
Developer
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:06 pm
France

Re: Chapter 1.3 Testing

#77

Post by erau » Thu May 21, 2020 11:00 am

Cozdragon wrote:
Wed May 20, 2020 3:33 pm
I'm sure this is on the list to fix but in case:

Unable to destroy a vendor in a house at the vendor. It gives you the option to destroy but it doesn't actually remove the vendor.

The only way to destroy it is via the house terminal and destroying all the contents.
I i am not mistaken it's a fixed , just that TC was not refreshed with latest code

Skyyr
Flight Officer
Posts: 17
Joined: Sat Jan 11, 2020 5:45 pm
Ukraine

Re: Chapter 1.3 Testing

#78

Post by Skyyr » Fri May 22, 2020 6:49 pm

Any feedback on bounties being AFK on the outside portion of guildhalls? Again, this is relatively game-breaking in terms of the bounty system if the timer and private structure changes go live without this being addressed.

ThirdBase
Midshipman
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jan 01, 2020 11:49 pm
United States of America

Re: Chapter 1.3 Testing

#79

Post by ThirdBase » Sun May 24, 2020 1:42 am

Skyyr wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 6:49 pm
Any feedback on bounties being AFK on the outside portion of guildhalls? Again, this is relatively game-breaking in terms of the bounty system if the timer and private structure changes go live without this being addressed.
I agree it shouldn't be considered outside, but how is it game breaking? It's been that way since the game began lol.

User avatar
Cozdragon
CC Admin
Posts: 471
Joined: Mon Jul 02, 2018 8:31 pm
Egypt

Re: Chapter 1.3 Testing

#80

Post by Cozdragon » Sun May 24, 2020 8:41 am

ThirdBase wrote:
Sun May 24, 2020 1:42 am
Skyyr wrote:
Fri May 22, 2020 6:49 pm
Any feedback on bounties being AFK on the outside portion of guildhalls? Again, this is relatively game-breaking in terms of the bounty system if the timer and private structure changes go live without this being addressed.
I agree it shouldn't be considered outside, but how is it game breaking? It's been that way since the game began lol.
We have what we believe is a workable solution in place to address this. Believe me it was a hot topic in the senior staff team whilst we were planning this new content.

Coz

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