ranged vs jedi

[aztecgold12]

I’ll try to find time to test the next set of saber block reductions, when it gets put up on TC

[Whorg]

From the way I interpret how melee mitigation works, its not going to do much againts a Jedi because lightsaber damage is already a "tight" damage range between min and max.

The basic function of damage mitigation is that it reduces the "spread" of damage on the weapon that is attacking you, also known as it's "damage range." It reduces the range by a set percentage, and accomplishes this by reducing the maximum damage. The reduction amounts are as follows:

Level 1 damage mitigation limits damage to 80% of the range (20% reduction)
Level 2 damage mitigation limits damage to 60% of the range (40% reduction)
Level 3 damage mitigation limits damage to 40% of the range (60% reduction)

To determine the amount of reduction, use the following formula:

Max Damage - Min Damage = Range
Range x Remaining % = New Range
Min Damage + New Range = New Max Damage

Lets try it. Say we have a 60-200 damage pistol, and we are facing a target with Level 3 Ranged Damage Mitigation:

200 - 60 = 140
140 x 40% = 56
60 + 56 = 116

So the new damage range is 60-116.

So, my PVP LS is 427-511. Using melee mitigation 1:
511-427 = 84
84 x 80% = 67
427 + 67 = 494
New damage range = 427 - 494.

Mitigation 3:
511-427 = 84
84 x 40% = 34
427 + 34 = 461
New damage range = 427 - 461.

[Whorg]

IMO, Infinity did some very good things with the BH vs Jedi mechanics. Mando armor was worn by nearly every feared BH for the LS resist, if not Mando then RIS which had about 1/2 of what Mando had. This made it so you needed to really progress your character with equipment/weapons instead of just skills given to you. It prevented a MBH from just leveling up and coming out in a robe and killing a full templated/SEA'd jedi. What will happen if Jedi's keep getting nerfed more and more, and bounty hunters start wearing full mando, with 60% sliced PSG's and high damage weapons? Fast blast was usable by carbines and pistols also, and did some heavy damage, as it should being a Master level skill. Traps were also introduced to disable force run which was huge, and needed to be timed right because of the cooldown. Here, if things go bad, you pop FR2 and theres absolutely nothing you can do as a bh. They also had a run boosting skill as well, so combined with sprint and some good parwan it was possible to kite a Jedi for brief periods. Im purely speaking from a non FRS Jedi vs BH, as thats the fights I had, and were very fun and challenging (as a Jedi) and getting on the terms was definitely something you wanted to avoid.

[Tyclo]

Saber block changes are now on test: http://www.swgsremu.com/forum/viewtopic ... t=10#p4293
Saber block 70% max, -20% stunned, -10% blinded

I would like to add in something to counter force run, but adding in a new ability or a system for that takes more time than adjusting an existing one. I've got a few things that I'm already working on and want to finish first. I'm trying not to do too much at once. :P

[Whorg]

are the saber block changes only affecting pvp engagements hopefully?

[aztecgold12]

I think that whorg made a lot of good points, but I also think that tyclo is right that we need to implement things slowly and in small increments so that we have time to test the balance with them.

I think that the newly implemented change to SB will be enough to level the playing field for a ranged bh, but I will jump on test next time I can to make sure.

Additionally, I think that the temporary disable for force run is a good idea too, but like I said I think that we should focus on balancing one mechanic at a time instead of sweeping overhauls to the abilities. So that each one can be tested on how much it effects the balance. But yes you’re right, if a Jedi has fr2 they can escape with ease and I think that down the road something should be implemented for a counter.

[Tyclo]

are the saber block changes only affecting pvp engagements hopefully?

It's for both PvP and PvE. But for how squishy Jedi are against PvE ranged, this probably should be adjusted. (This is why we test!)

Edit: Not on test yet, but I've adjusted it to the following:

• [Adjusted] Saber block PvE 85% max, -10% stunned, -5% blinded

-15% total for PvE is you are stunned and blinded. Instead of disabling it entirely, I figured it'd be something for healers who heal states and Enhancers who resist. (Even though PvE just reapplies states non-stop lol)

PvP is as previously stated: Saber block PvP 70% max, -20% stunned, -10% blinded

Additionally, I think that the temporary disable for force run is a good idea too, but like I said I think that we should focus on balancing one mechanic at a time instead of sweeping overhauls to the abilities. So that each one can be tested on how much it effects the balance. But yes you’re right, if a Jedi has fr2 they can escape with ease and I think that down the road something should be implemented for a counter.

I've considered a few "temporary" options for Force Run. Perhaps if a Jedi is Knocked down, it removes Force Run from the Jedi. Also, if the Jedi has the dizzy state, they cannot activate Force Run. A new ability / state is ideal, but I'm trying not to get too distracted from what I'm currently working on.

Only issue I see with this possible change is that instead of Force Run being used as a retreat when they are losing a battle, Jedi will just instantaneously run the second a BH engages since the Jedi knows they can't run if they are dizzied.

Also, Pistols doesn't have a dizzy ability. Nor am I sure that I want to add it. Might be worth trying...

---

By the way, these changes may not be on test for very long before they are pushed to live. So any FR changes probably won't make it, but the saber block will.

[Whorg]

Sounds good Tyclo. I like the dizzy and kd removing force run, would just need to add in the cool down timer or code it as a manual deactivate to start so they can’t just instantly turn it back on. Same as sprint being disabled on kd, and sprint not being able to be used if dizzied. I like it. Might also make more people think about taking force resist states from enhancer.

I agree pistols don’t need a dizzy with these changes, if you were to put one in I would put it in the master bh box to make master bh more appealing, whether it’s on fast blast or a different special. If you left dizzy off of pistols it would def make carbines more appealing which could be good as well, however you might consider making fast blast usable with carbines and pistols, again to make the master bh box more appealing. Just some thoughts, I think we are on the right track though and would love to hear others peoples opinions and suggestions.

[Wyldcard]

What if you just made saber block not work against heavy weapons like the LLC, flame thrower, and acid rifle? That way bh can be more effective, and encourage heavy weapon use for more than just pve.

[Roccah]

BH is mostly Equip
I looted on Live Server a Weapon Component 3 uses ( made Pistols ) and since that Day i never again had a Problem vs a Jedi .
Master Def had not the Points to be fast and good heal ..but with that system on SR ..while you can drop Village Stuff .. he can choose both.
We had very Rare Defender on Chimaera ..in all my BH Time i just found 1 and as i said .. fast or usefull heal ..and that one had heal .. so i kite him uphill /downhill until he was out of force
what about giving the BH the requirement like in CU .. Scout 4xxx and Marksman xxx4 instead of Master Marks ..would allow a bit more Builds and i think good Melee Builds ..
I dont know if BH Missis drop Weapon Components on this Server..but ..since is saw nearly every Jedi is Master Def ..and the Pistols/Cara in the Galaxiewide Shops are max Medium Quality ..i dropt the Idea of making a BH here pretty fast

I can only speak from Live Server .. Jedi hide in Houses when a BH poped up ..even our Jedi Guardians
Would Love to be MBH/MPistol again .. was great Fun ..

You need to Test ..geno /scatter/de10 500+max dmg with some 250str DoT Pistols .. thats what nearly every BH had

Since you have a low DoT Weapon chance and the Jedi can drop FS .. the balance will be nearly impossible ..
Maybee make a higher chance of good DoT LLC /Cara / Pistols on MBH Missis only ?

just my 2 cent