Flamethrower Discussion

[Tyclo]

We've been receiving reports about Flamethrowers dealing excessive amounts of damage in PvP. Reports have been very mixed, some say the DoT, others say the Damage, others say it's fine the way it is.

I'm creating this poll to gauge the current situation and gather the communities opinion on the matter. I was limited to 10 options for the poll, so not all options will fit your take on the subject, but there the idea is to see whether what aspect needs balancing the most, Flamethrower damage or the DoT and is this a versus Jedi problem or a problem overall. Please choose the option that best fits.

For a lack of better term, please do not turn this post into a flame war. You may only pick one option and you may change your vote after voting.

Please read all options before voting.

[Roccah]

Pve -> flamer is awesome
PvP -> Flamer is pretty fast dead .. defence while wear flamer are crap .. ppl that QQ about the "huge" dmg maybee dont realized it ..
Rifleman make much more dmg and from a range that is sick ..

i use a exceptinal Flamer 0.1 speed and i dont 2-3 shoot anything .. i can not say that Flamer Dmg in to high .
There are other things that hurt ways more than a flamer . master defender with force weaken .. chobo build :/

I would vote but nothing fits for me

[Whorg]

Would vote as well but none of the options fit my opinion, coming from someone who pvps with a flamer. The bh build has been figured out, I don’t even bounty hunt anymore because there’s 0% chance of winning against a Jedi who has heal states. All of this crying nerf that can be completely negated by 1 Jedi skill. That goes for any ranged build btw. By the time you can get stun and blind to actually stick it’s wiped by a skill that costs a measly 100 force.

The prob is people here want to be the best at pve AND pvp with the same build.

[RagnarokReborn]

I genuienly think they are fine, they are pretty much the same as they were on live and they were fine. All it takes is running a better comp in pvp or a diff jedi build and you are good.

Run with more docs.... its not hard... I dont know why there always have to be a "OMG TOO STRONK NERF THIS"...

[Orlaf]

There really isnt any problem with flame throwers other then their modifier against jedi. The dot is like 300-500, its not that big of a deal. however when you get hit every second (deadshots exceptional flame thrower) or even every 1.5-2 seconds (most flamers out there) for 1-2k A HIT. that becomes a problem.

That being said, there is a clear way to mitigate this by going intimidate and heal states. it just means you have to devote yourself to a pvp build

STILL 1-2k damage is obscene in pvp.

Regarding 'run with more docs' - You cant use outside help when you're being hunted, thats where this discussion is coming out of.

I doubt ANYONE has a problem with flamers being used in wide world PVP. its just Bounty hunters.

As for bounty hunters saying that its either pvp or pve build.. well not, the game was built as a sandbox, where you could do whatever you wanted. Jedi are already missing FRS which is a big hit to whatever they wanted to do regarding that, whether its powers or anything else like that.

Without FRS jedi pretty much locked into a single meta which is MDef, MLS. so if jedi go pvp based spec, they cant do ANY pve without help for others because no intimidation means they're getting constantly hit for 500-1000 a hit from mobs. so the choice is, not be able to farm by yourself ever or risk getting BH'd and killed once a week. choice is pretty obvious.

[Whorg]

You should not be able to have 1 spec be best at PvE AND PvP. Its your choice. Like you say, you want to farm on a forced PvP class with a PvE spec, thats the risk you take. Keep in mind Jedi is not the only PvE class, arguably not even the best depending on content. Its really no different than say my Rifleman. I initially had him Master Rifles, some CM, and defense stacker. Started getting mauled down by all of the CM poisons at the time, so was forced to adapt and switch builds and add Doc to clear them at the cost of CM. That, or die repeatedly. This game is and always has been rock, paper, scissors. There is and always should be a counter to every class and spec. However I will say that the Jedi pvp spec that Menace came up with that Im also running is brutally good and have not found a counter for that yet

[Orlaf]

You should not be able to have 1 spec be best at PvE AND PvP. Its your choice. Like you say, you want to farm on a forced PvP class with a PvE spec, thats the risk you take. Keep in mind Jedi is not the only PvE class, arguably not even the best depending on content. Its really no different than say my Rifleman. I initially had him Master Rifles, some CM, and defense stacker. Started getting mauled down by all of the CM poisons at the time, so was forced to adapt and switch builds and add Doc to clear them at the cost of CM. That, or die repeatedly. This game is and always has been rock, paper, scissors. There is and always should be a counter to every class and spec. However I will say that the Jedi pvp spec that Menace came up with that Im also running is brutally good and have not found a counter for that yet

Problem is that you should get some benefits to having jedi. If someone wants an ordinary pve profession, just go swords stacker. takes about 6 hours to grind out instead of 6 weeks. My point is that dealing 1-2k dmg a hit is ridiculous, you dont see any other profession dealing that kind of damage, even jedi against artisan will only be dealing 500-700 a hit. or 2x that when kd'd

[Whorg]

Flame single 2 is an 8x damage skill hence why your seeing so much damage. Add 2x if you get hit while kd and that’s why you see so much damage. The numbers are the same as live and the same as the emu, so why is it such a big issue here but never been an issue on any other server? Maybe because of the heavy weapons tapes? I’ve never seen them on any other server.. maybe that’s the issue here.

[Roccah]

You should not be able to have 1 spec be best at PvE AND PvP. Its your choice. Like you say, you want to farm on a forced PvP class with a PvE spec, thats the risk you take. Keep in mind Jedi is not the only PvE class, arguably not even the best depending on content. Its really no different than say my Rifleman. I initially had him Master Rifles, some CM, and defense stacker. Started getting mauled down by all of the CM poisons at the time, so was forced to adapt and switch builds and add Doc to clear them at the cost of CM. That, or die repeatedly. This game is and always has been rock, paper, scissors. There is and always should be a counter to every class and spec. However I will say that the Jedi pvp spec that Menace came up with that Im also running is brutally good and have not found a counter for that yet

Problem is that you should get some benefits to having jedi. If someone wants an ordinary pve profession, just go swords stacker. takes about 6 hours to grind out instead of 6 weeks. My point is that dealing 1-2k dmg a hit is ridiculous, you dont see any other profession dealing that kind of damage, even jedi against artisan will only be dealing 500-700 a hit. or 2x that when kd'd

While wearing Flamer the defence is like nuts ... 3-4hits on mind (with psg and wafers) and you are nearly down .. flamer can only be used when someone is Dizzy/KD .. and there are a few that deal that dmg when you are KD . Jedi is OP here ..that extra points totally broke balance on Jedi .. master def + force weaken is a joke ..heal states 100force lawl .. jedi have nothing to QQ about .. they are OP ! stuff like this should not be possible .. the idea of droping village is good .. but the balance behind that will take years ..with Village skills you could be tanky and heal , no FR no other skills .. or take FR and run away when you get low .. with the drop the balance to PRO Jedi is sick .. i have no problems with lower flamer .. but than delete the ancient holo stuff also and stop jedi be op

[Dirtnose]

You should not be able to have 1 spec be best at PvE AND PvP. Its your choice. Like you say, you want to farm on a forced PvP class with a PvE spec, thats the risk you take. Keep in mind Jedi is not the only PvE class, arguably not even the best depending on content. Its really no different than say my Rifleman. I initially had him Master Rifles, some CM, and defense stacker. Started getting mauled down by all of the CM poisons at the time, so was forced to adapt and switch builds and add Doc to clear them at the cost of CM. That, or die repeatedly. This game is and always has been rock, paper, scissors. There is and always should be a counter to every class and spec. However I will say that the Jedi pvp spec that Menace came up with that Im also running is brutally good and have not found a counter for that yet

Problem is that you should get some benefits to having jedi. If someone wants an ordinary pve profession, just go swords stacker. takes about 6 hours to grind out instead of 6 weeks. My point is that dealing 1-2k dmg a hit is ridiculous, you dont see any other profession dealing that kind of damage, even jedi against artisan will only be dealing 500-700 a hit. or 2x that when kd'd

You do get benefits. Jedi are the only class with lightsaber damage, they're the only class that can run faster than the SL retreat ability, they're the only class to get a unique bar on their HAM, they're the only class that can literally stay invulnerable with AI, they're the only class that can block ranges attacks outright with saber block. I could go on and on.

Just because you grinded on Rancors for 6 weeks doesnt mean you should have benefits exceeding the balance of a PvP meta. Jedi already get a tonne of unique stuff and flavour. Jedi should be designed and balanced within the confines of all the professions. The fact it takes "work" (and I use that word very loosely) to unlock one doesnt mean it should be an auto top tier class against everything. That logic is what kills any sort of balancing and what nullifies non jedi in pvp fights. Jedi taking more damage vs non Jedi isnt a grounds to want a change here. By this logic can all non jedi get force run because its totally ridiculous that non jedi cant run away from any fight they are about to lose.