Flamethrower Discussion

[Orlaf]

You should not be able to have 1 spec be best at PvE AND PvP. Its your choice. Like you say, you want to farm on a forced PvP class with a PvE spec, thats the risk you take. Keep in mind Jedi is not the only PvE class, arguably not even the best depending on content. Its really no different than say my Rifleman. I initially had him Master Rifles, some CM, and defense stacker. Started getting mauled down by all of the CM poisons at the time, so was forced to adapt and switch builds and add Doc to clear them at the cost of CM. That, or die repeatedly. This game is and always has been rock, paper, scissors. There is and always should be a counter to every class and spec. However I will say that the Jedi pvp spec that Menace came up with that Im also running is brutally good and have not found a counter for that yet

Problem is that you should get some benefits to having jedi. If someone wants an ordinary pve profession, just go swords stacker. takes about 6 hours to grind out instead of 6 weeks. My point is that dealing 1-2k dmg a hit is ridiculous, you dont see any other profession dealing that kind of damage, even jedi against artisan will only be dealing 500-700 a hit. or 2x that when kd'd

You do get benefits. Jedi are the only class with lightsaber damage, they're the only class that can run faster than the SL retreat ability, they're the only class to get a unique bar on their HAM, they're the only class that can literally stay invulnerable with AI, they're the only class that can block ranges attacks outright with saber block. I could go on and on.

Just because you grinded on Rancors for 6 weeks doesnt mean you should have benefits exceeding the balance of a PvP meta. Jedi already get a tonne of unique stuff and flavour. Jedi should be designed and balanced within the confines of all the professions. The fact it takes "work" (and I use that word very loosely) to unlock one doesnt mean it should be an auto top tier class against everything. That logic is what kills any sort of balancing and what nullifies non jedi in pvp fights. Jedi taking more damage vs non Jedi isnt a grounds to want a change here. By this logic can all non jedi get force run because its totally ridiculous that non jedi cant run away from any fight they are about to lose.

Yes I agree that Jedi do get tons of benefits already. However that's why it takes 100x longer to grind out jedi then a regular profession and thats just jedi, it takes another several weeks to get all the tapes because you're useless otherwise with no force regen or accuracy. Meanwhile you grind out a BH in about 6-9 hrs of play time, need another 6 hrs of playtime to get credits to to get all the tapes and bare minimum equipment, bam you have a BH that can kill 90% of jedi.

Agree with me or not, have you or have you not seen BH 2 shot Jedi as if they were CL 20 mob? Does that seem 'balanced' since thats the word you keep on using.

There is also melee stacker template that's BHs use, sure it requires actual knowledge of game to know how to win, and sure you wont be able to beat jedi who are fully decked out by yourself, but that's why you're able to group up with 2 other BHs that will have other templates in order to hunt jedi.

Fact is we could go on about different 'balances' the game has or doesn't have but the main point of this is - is Flamer TKM build too op in PvP form? Seeing as you can 2 shot a Jedi, yes. Versus ordinary players? No. Dot itself does only 400-500 dmg, not a big deal. The hit itself while kd'd, stun'd does up to 2.5k and this is to a fully taped out Master Defender too. KD and stun are easy to apply with TKM due to high accuracy, most of time, those same BHs are impossible to state for too long (10 seconds max?) reducing the chances to prevent doing their single trick.

There is only 1 approach to counter that, and that's having heal state.

[Whorg]

So much misinformation in your post Orlaf you have to be trolling. Looks like the consensus is flamers are fine how they are. However, I would gladly trade a flamer nerf for a bh ability to keep a Jedi from running. As it stands, it is the ONLY way to kill a Jedi. Even at that, being able to AI and heal on the ground they still shouldn’t die(and most don’t, the ones that actually know what they are doing and have AI and FR2). That’s 2 counters, one is a PvE build that you can freely run away, and the other PvP which you can fight and kill any single BH. Not sure why we are even debating this. Oh, because said Jedi want to be able to do everything PvE AND PvP with the same build

[Orlaf]

So much misinformation in your post Orlaf you have to be trolling. Looks like the consensus is flamers are fine how they are. However, I would gladly trade a flamer nerf for a bh ability to keep a Jedi from running. As it stands, it is the ONLY way to kill a Jedi. Even at that, being able to AI and heal on the ground they still shouldn’t die(and most don’t, the ones that actually know what they are doing and have AI and FR2). That’s 2 counters, one is a PvE build that you can freely run away, and the other PvP which you can fight and kill any single BH. Not sure why we are even debating this. Oh, because said Jedi want to be able to do everything PvE AND PvP with the same build

Consensus so far is that flamers are too OP, its just split between in general and Jedi, you add em up its 16. However whats this misinformation that i've given? I legit thought everything i have said to be correct, so correct me so i know better.

[Whorg]

Let me just say I spent far more than your quoted 6 hours to get the tapes and the tissues needed for that spec to work. And I’ve also never 2 shot anyone that I’m aware of. 3 shot maybe if they were on the ground stunned and blind (8x special + 2x damage from prone, what do you expect?). Also there’s nothing hard about Jedi. You don’t need even 1/2 of the amount of tapes that the BH requires. Squill cave nets you almost 1 million exp per clear. It’s just a wait for village cycles, that’s it. Anyone that’s played here long knows where to farm high level tapes and it’s very easy. I farmed krayts daily for months and months to get exceptional tissues. So yeah, I take your statement as an insult. Now if your dying to fresh, untaped, 2 second flamer bh’s that is an issue(or an issue with your spec or skill).

[Orlaf]

Let me just say I spent far more than your quoted 6 hours to get the tapes and the tissues needed for that spec to work. And I’ve also never 2 shot anyone that I’m aware of. 3 shot maybe if they were on the ground stunned and blind (8x special + 2x damage from prone, what do you expect?). Also there’s nothing hard about Jedi. You don’t need even 1/2 of the amount of tapes that the BH requires. Squill cave nets you almost 1 million exp per clear. It’s just a wait for village cycles, that’s it. Anyone that’s played here long knows where to farm high level tapes and it’s very easy. I farmed krayts daily for months and months to get exceptional tissues. So yeah, I take your statement as an insult. Now if your dying to fresh, untaped, 2 second flamer bh’s that is an issue(or an issue with your spec or skill).

I personally never have gotten 2 shot but ice seen plenty of jedi that have. Im also not talking about grinding for an exceptional tissue with 6 hours of work. Im talking about 2-3 buff session that it takes you to get 5-7.5mill to buy the tapes.

Back to the topic at hand, what would you be saying if jedi had 3 hit you as you had admitted of doing? Of course youd be yelling nerf too. Its not supposed to be easy to kill jedi. Anyways thats my 2 cents about this topic.

[Xordium]

I don't understand this it's not supposed to be easy to kill a jedi argument. Most BH templates can't do it - a small few can. Jedi have adequate defenses to that if they so choose to use them. Also we see plenty of jedi die in the films to ranged templates so where exactly does the it's not supposed to be easy to kill come from bar players ingame making a fallacy laden argument that is insubstantiated by the source material. Star Wars is littered with inconsistencies to make the films a spectacle. They talk of all powerful masterful jedi who can't see the sith lord in the very same room whom they meet every day. See that sandcrawler well those scorch marks are too accurate for sandpeople only imperial stormtroopers are that accurate then those very stormtroopers miss every shot from 10 metres for the remained of the films.

Moreover, the whole it takes a long time to get there is also fallacy laden - if you don't enjoy the game maybe don't play it! If you don't enjoy playing the pathway to becoming a jedi maybe the game isn't for you.

BH hardly get it easy getting their armour. That's a lot slower than getting to Jedi. Jedi is also certainty you can get there in time. However, getting good weapons is not so easy - it's all well and good saying buy them. The simple fact is on this server people tend to only sell weapons to close friends and because of the 5 slots an awful lot of people make their own weapons for personal use only.

I think the flamer thing is a bit of a gamey way to kill a Jedi personally. I'd happily see jedi marks moved to MBH. But you need to give MBH something in return - a tether ability to prevent disengagement by both parties, sabreblock reducing ability, melee mitigation, etc. You have to throw them a bone too.

Jedi aren't really dying as it is seems like most people play them and it's hardly an alpha class then. Bring back permadeath and then maybe you've got an argument but the whole it takes a long time to grind it a moot point when you profess to like the game ...

For what it's worth I would like to vote flamethrower Dot is too powerful overall, but then so are CM ticks, Bull rancor ticks, doctor buffs etc. This game needs a lot of thought to move in a more Star Warsey direction and toning down buffs and debuffs and DOTs will be a big part of that.

[Zion]

I love this age old argument. Jedi are Alpha and should be as such. Trying to balance Jedi /BH is futile. Swg BH’s have turned into nothing but trolls. The game would be better off without them. I know this will irritate people but I truly believe this